Against All Odds - A soldier survives his own mistakes and a military vendetta

Welcome back to between the before and after a podcast about the stories that shape us. I'm your host, Coach Jon mclernon. Each episode, I bring you an inspiring guest with a moving story that shines a light on the power of the human spirit. 

I'm excited to share this story with you. So let's dive in. 

Well, I say that I'm excited to share this story with you. But I think this is a series of stories. Uh There was one famous psychologist who said life is not a game, life is a series of games. And when I started hearing um Jason's stories, this is what it really sounded like to me. Uh Jason is a man that I, I think it would be fair to say has been through, through Hell and back. Um even from a difficult and challenging childhood AAA disease that uh started early in childhood to a learning disability, to uh a military career that was filled with all kinds of adversity and yet still managed to rise to the rank of lieutenant colonel and have a distinguished 31 year career. Uh This is the story of against all odds with Jason Pike So welcome to the show, Jason. 

Hey John, I'm very honored to be on your show. But yeah, you said it right. It's 31 years, nine years of that was overseas and a lot of crazy places and a lot of crazy events. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I spent about six years in the Canadian Navy. 

Um, but it wasn't, it, it, it wasn't really a wild time in, in a sense, a lot of our work at the time that I was in was actually preparing for the Vancouver Winter Olympics in 2010. So I was in from actively from like 03 to 2010 with a one year leave of absence. And so I spent a lot of time on the west coast of Canada. It wasn't nearly as exciting as I thought I was signing up for. I was expecting to go places and instead we just prepared for the Olympics and did drills there. So, um, but you thir 31 years, uh and a lot of a lot of time spent overseas, which sounds pretty, pretty exciting. Um There, there's so much to dive into here. But I first thing for me because I love, I love traveling, but you were visiting countries in a very, very, uh different way. What sticks out to you from? And we're gonna go back into your story too. But I'm just curious as a precursor, what sticks out to you from like the, the first time you were deployed overseas. Where did you go? And what sticks out to you? Ok. Um, the first big event was Korea, South Korea and it was the wild women and things of that nature. And I went over, I went to the Philippines and I enjoyed the food, the culture. Uh, there was tastes and things and smells and I just enjoyed South Korea and I went there three different times and uh it was more you come back to America and think, well, you know, I had all these experiences and how do you explain these things to people? It's hard, really different, right? 

Yeah, that, that's a very interesting point is uh once you've been to an experience like an entirely different culture, different language, different food, all these kinds of things and you come back to an environment where many people maybe haven't left their own state or maybe even their own city or town or things like that. And it's, it's there feels like there's a little bit of a disconnect. And so uh that itself is quite something to deal with, but I want to go back a little bit in time here because uh before we started recording, you mentioned you had a, you know, or I don't know if you still have a, a bone disease. And uh and that paired with uh a learning disability. So as a child, these are already two very big hurdles that you were facing and we're talking about facing these hurdles. Uh I'll say a few decades earlier where there wasn't even, even the same level of uh sort of understanding compassion for dealing with these things. So if you could just share just a little bit about what it was like uh at how this kind of affected you growing up. 

So, the learning disability was the biggest challenge. Meaning that I was in the 1972 I failed the first grade and uh English writing and reading are my worst subjects. But I'm a national bestselling author. Go figure that out. 

I, I got some. Right. Right. I can help people. Iii I can, I can find some help. But no, really. That was the biggest struggle and that continued on for even to this day, I think all of your readers out there, all of your listeners, what have you, they can do better on any standardized test or any type of reading. Right. So, but the, the osteo was a bone disease that occurred when I was about nine years old and it dissolved the bone of my left knee. Um So, and, and I was on crutches for a while. 

I did it twice. So my bone I might be 4 58 years old, but my, my left knee is probably 49 years old because it, it went away and it grew back bigger. It looks different than, but Right. So, yeah. So that, but don't know, and that's what happened. And so I think the only positive, which is the pain and failure occurred to me early in life and I considered pain and failure just a part of life. 

Um, I think the biggest thing was sporting. My dad loved sports and I couldn't do the sporting activities. And so I couldn't like, you know, be the best football player because of my knee or the, what have you, uh the act makes, uh that had haunted me for years. Um But I, I've got, I've got the osteo the physical, I was able to work around that and add it through physical rehabilitation. Right? And, and the learning disability presented a few other challenges. Um What was that like for, for your parents? And, and were they, were they supportive? 

Like, you know, because I look back now and we look back through the lens of hindsight and we go, look, our parents did the best they could with what they knew and what they had at the time. Uh maybe having a learning, uh a child with a learning disability was seen as a shameful thing. And, and that, that, yeah, how was it? Let me get that for uh from your parents perspective. Uh They looked at me and wow, you know, they're like, whoa, you know, we, we, because it was identified professional, a lot of people think, oh, I got a DH D but this was a professional identification and so they, they, they saw the letter and they said, well, let's not put too much expectations and pressure on Jason. 

Let's sort of leave him alone. We feel bad for him, but let's leave him alone, let him do what he needs to do. Hopefully get better. So that was like a disappointment for them, I think, uh, because education, like any parent loves, they enjoy, they want their kids to, you know, do a good education. Uh, as far as a physical disability, they felt, they felt sorry for me. I worked around that but it was, I think the educational part was more impactful to them because that education is the key to a lot of things in life. And so they just said, well, let's let this guy go in other words, let, let's just let him just do what he needs to do to get through life. So, yeah. Yeah. Uh, so at a certain point in time you felt maybe drawn or felt like a calling to the military. Uh, what, what was it that attracted you to the military? 

Well, I'm from, uh, South Carolina originally. And Georgia. South that area, uh, is very patriotic. It's just, it's one of the options that you have. 

A lot of young people decide to go into. Um, it was either college or the military. And so like college was definitely out of the equation even though later on it became. But I, I said well, I'll just join the military and be the lowest enlisted person in the military and just do it that way. Maybe I can find some way to move somewhere and it was reserved. It was National Guard. It was not. I, good question is how did I get into the entrance? I mean, a good question would be, how did you enter a professional organization with subpar physical and mental ailments? Right. Yeah. So, I mean, that's a good, I mean, iii, I, well, first of all, I lied about my physical problem. 

I said no, I'm fine. It's ok. Nothing's good. I also, I was joining the National Guard at the time was less than best. It was not a pro, it was professional, but it was like, ok, I don't know how I passed the entries because I got it. 

II, I just, I just, they said, hey, you're in, um, I, you didn't even, I didn't even have a high school diploma at that time. And, uh, yeah, so that set me up to be in the military, even as a reserve person. So, um, so I was already locked in at that point at the age of 17. I didn't even have a high school diploma. Yeah. Right. Ok. So your path in a sense is starting to be decided for you be because, uh, by virtue of that. And so, um, did you have a particular trade that you, you pursued within that? Yeah. I went into field artillery and filled artillery, putting big bombs down range. 

Um, that's what I did initially. I didn't like it. I didn't like the loud sounds and things of that nature and it was a lot of grunt work and screaming and yelling. And I nearly got kicked out, uh, when I was 17 because I couldn't, when I went through the basic training I didn't adapt very well. Uh, you would, uh, the water coming through the fire hose was very fast and I wasn't adapting very well. So they wanted to kick me out. And what they did is they sent me to a criminal, uh, correctional facility. It was in 1983 at, for Oklahoma they sent me to, it's not that I did anything criminal but it was sort of a drug deal to try to set me up to, for failure or to stress me out to get me out of there. Ok. Yeah, it was, it, this does not happen in the military. Uh, right. I have tried to find, uh, but no, it's really a criminal correctional facility set up for criminals. 

I was sent there because my drill sergeant wanted to try to kick me out. And, uh, I stayed in the game and I came, I came back and I graduated in 1983 at the age of 18, I was going into my senior year of high school and my mind started to change because I thought if I went through that level of hell, which to me was very much hellish that I could do other things. And so my mind began to change. I had to go to a military brig to get myself knocked in the head just to understand it. But, um, no, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't kick me out. So, but I, I stayed in again. Yeah. Ok. So it was, they, they tried, maybe, maybe it was like, we don't have valid reason according to military law to necessarily discharge you. So we're gonna try to set you up and see if we can find a way out because you're just too, too, too difficult. 

You're not, you're not getting it. Uh, it's not worth trying to train you. Let's just see if we can find a way to get you out of there. But you, you said nope, I'm, I'm stubborn and I'm not, I'm not giving up on, I think. Yeah. And you know, I think that that's the irony of like a lot of success stories is like, well, I didn't quit. It got hard and I didn't quit and I stuck, I stuck with it. Um, so, so going along, so from field artillery, um, you said you didn't like that as, as a trade? What did you move into from there? 

Uh, so I eventually be, started becoming, uh, looking at, becoming an officer in the military. Uh, so I went to a junior college. I left them best college. My, my daughter, my daughter calls it the dummy college because they'll let anybody in there and, but I had to build up some academic confidence and basics to get transferred into a reputable university. And, uh, when I went to ROTC Reserve Officer training pro core program, just to, you know, to taste it. 

I thought it was easy. I thought, oh, my God, I can do that. And I did, I mean, it, to me, compared to what I went through, it was very, very easy and becoming an officer was very, some of the officers will say, well, you became an officer because you couldn't be enlisted there. There might be some truth to that. But I said, well, look easy. They get better pay. 

I, yeah, I'm gonna go up that I'm gonna go up that way. And the, the part part about it was the academics. Again, I had worked with my physical elements to a point where leg lifting and, you know, leg extensions, leg lifts and things and getting the muscles around the knee. I built up that the academic part I had to take a, it took me a while. I was on the five year plan and it wasn't an engineering, it was more in education, something easy. It took a while for me to get there, but I got there. 

You got to get the college degree to become a commissioned officer. A leader in the military. That's what I did. And I eventually went into uh medical, medical department of Public Health. Um Yeah, fascinating. Now I know in, in your story, somewhere in your twenties you uh ended up getting arrested by the, the military again at this point in time, were you an officer in like the medical department? 

I was a ROTC, I was a reserve officer training corps scholarship, a cadet. They call us. The cadets are idiots. So we, and uh, so I was arrested for driving. Well, I was a bit cocky in my youth because I had already done things that they said I couldn't do and I'm in college doing this, I'm doing that, got scholarships. And so I just, I drove, I drove through stop signs, red lights. 

I had, I drove my points up a lot of minor violations of the law, sort of built up over time. And then they took my driver's license away and then I said, fuck it. I'm gonna keep on driving and I did and then I got caught again and then they put me in jail and uh for driving under the suspension of a driver's license. I told my, uh I told my leader, military people that what happened and they said, um, just keep us surprised at the situation at the time. They didn't consider that very serious. They said they just want to keep an eye on me. 

And, uh, that's what happened. And I eventually, uh got my license back in six months. But, uh, that was a very minor event. And then later on, I got another, I got another jail for something more serious at the time. And, uh, I got, I got locked up for driving under the influence of alcohol, which in the military, these, but this is a much more serious allegation than just semi, it's very serious, serious and severe life. But in the military, they have a no defect. 

Uh, you know, these things, there's certain things you hit and I did that when I got locked up and the MP, the military police got me out of there. And uh I went through a two year appeal, a two year appeal process on that. Uh, nearly getting kicked out. I had to go through various gates to prove my worth to the military. And that was something that conventional wisdom was that you will not, you will not, you will not, you will not go any further. You were getting kicked out. But I went through some appeal processes. Um I, yeah, I don't know, sometimes in life when I get knocked down, I haven't, I don't know, I've been knocked down a few times and II, I don't know, there's a, there's a motivation of me to get up and try to face the win and, and these challenges. And I, I went, and I, I, and I eventually got that appeal out of, out of it. Right. So what, what was the gap in time, uh, from the first year, the first arrest which was from minor driving infractions to the second, which was driving under the influence. 

You're looking about eight years. Ok. So, yeah, I was driving under and yeah, and so about an eight year time frame. But, you know, during that time I was doing lots of wild things, uh, doing things that I weren't supposed to. Um, and then I just got caught just doing, I, I had been a, I went, I went a, into the Philippines to meet girls and things when I was in for a second. So, I mean, I have done a lot of things and I just got caught on a few things. Right. Right. So, how old were you when you had your first overseas deployment? Well, first overseas. Uh, 2028 28 years old. 

I had been in the National Guard for a period of years before I was on active duty. So I did have a very small stunt. Uh, it, two weeks in Italy but that was so small. I don't even count it as a, ok. Sure. Yeah, that was like a little vacation to a nice, nice country. 

II, I lived in Italy for about seven months so I ha, I have a bit of a fondness for Italy. But, um, oh, and then, so then you go on this, this uh, more significant tour to South Korea, Southeast Asia. It's, it's quite a fascinating place to travel around for those of us who are from North America because you got so many, um, different countries kind of crammed into a relatively small geographical area. A whole bunch of different cultures, languages. It, it is, it's really cool. 

Um, but you, you, you went down there and you thought, well, I, I'm gonna have some fun too because maybe there's, there's a certain, could we say reputation that is attached to American servicemen, um, over there and you, you, you took advantage of the fact that, that reputation, uh, pre, precedes you. Oh, yeah, no doubt. I went down there. Uh, I went South Korea. 

I enjoyed the girls and the food, the food, I still eat Korean food, the food to this day I eat every day. Korean food and now the women I, I got, yeah, I, well, I like the, I like the other people down there in the Philippines. So it was only a four hour flight from Seoul down to Manila. And then I would go down there and hang out there on long weekends sometimes. I just said, oh, man, they're so great down there. 

I just, I just left and I was absent without leave. And, uh, that unofficial leave call. Yeah, they call some consternation. I tried to cover it up at the time but that didn't work too well. And, uh, I'm I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm happy that I didn't get caught doing that stuff. But, uh, but no, uh, no, I was doing, I was taking advantage of all the liberties that a service member could have, whether it be drinking or whatever, fornicating. 

What have you, uh, of, of, of my time in South Korea and in the Philippines. And then, uh, yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. And then, so you, you come, uh, was there a point in time where you sort of look back on the patterns of behavior you look at? OK, there seems to be this kind of cocky defiance to rules and regulations which the military is a funny place to end up when that's like the pattern of behavior, always testing the boundaries, seeing where you can, how far you can push the boundaries. 

Did there come a point in time where you, you, you kind of step back and, and wanted to reflect a little bit and go, hm. I wonder what I'm doing here? That was, yeah. And I did that when I got into a rest of the DDU. I, when I was a little bit later in the career and that's where it really hit me because I got a, I got a go gomor which is called a General officer memorandum of reprimand. 

This is when a general officer in your chain of command says you're fucked. And I mean, they, they say that, I mean, they, they say you are done. You are done. And that was my wake up. I had to go face the battalion commander. I was a captain facing the colonel like, and he read the, the, the, the, the, it, it was a bad boy. This is means the general above him says this guy is duck and he's, he's a problem. Yeah. And so that was my wake up call and then that's where I went through the two year process. And I look back and I'm thinking, you know, what am I gonna, you know, that was more of a wake up call for me because I got very confident, almost too confident. And then I got brought down with the du I and then therefore I had to face the wind to that. And that was a hard process and most people, uh, they would not have, I mean, I, we talk about military and war and you're surviving war and battle, but this was a legal battle and my career was on the line. 

I wouldn't be talking to you right now if I didn't win it. And so I, I did win it but it took some time and effort and some money to get through the process. And, um, I think that a lot of people just dismiss me as, oh yeah, that was Jason. He got ad U I, he was screwed up. But they don't understand what level of hill I had to pay for the price of screwing and I did it, I had go through some procedures and, uh, that was an effort in just surviving and just staying in the game and not giving up with everything. Yeah, for sure. And you, you mentioned, uh, being sent to the, the brig, which is, uh, slang terminology for military jail. And how much, how much time did you spend in there? And what, how does it differ from? I don't know if you spend any time in, in a civilian jail but how, how does it differ? 

Oh, no, no, a military jail is much, much more different than the civilian jail. Civilian jail is more like, you know, there's TV. And this and that now a civilian brig and I only went there for about four hours and it was only for a scared straight program and it, and the military brig is set up to, uh, I mean, well, this where I was set up was a, as a scared street type of a program, a motivational program. But I was with the criminals that were there that did this all the time. They made big rocks in the small rocks. 

They climbed obstacle courses, they were screamed and yelled at, at a different level of hill than just basic training. It was something that was inconsistent. You were less than a human being. And, and these are so I was with the prisoners that were going through the, they did this I mean, these prisoners were, like, really built really because they were really stronger than me because they do this all the time. They have to go through this hell all the time. And I'm just there for the Scared Straight program and I'm with them and I'm, I thought that I was getting kicked out at the time. 

I didn't know it was sort of a drug deal with the sergeants to sh, to try to break you, uh, like a motivational program. I didn't know that at the time it took me a while to figure that out. That doesn't exist in the military. I have to say that officially that doesn't exist that existed for me. That was just, that was just a one time. Uh, and I, I, I've tried to ask people but no, they were just trying to see what they could do to set me up for failure or to try to, uh, break me and that, that didn't work. It kind of strengthened me, maybe made me a little bit wired, uh, too tight, but it did. It did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the military is a really interesting study in psychology to begin with. And it's also fascinating to think of how the military has evolved over the years in terms of its psychology and its treatment and so on and so forth. 

Um, you know, there could be, I remember getting yelled at in basic training and, uh, but even, even back then, uh, 20 years ago, they weren't allowed to straight up, uh, tear us down and cuss us out individually. Everything was, was group punishment, which was actually kind of worse because it's like you screw up and everybody else pays the price as well. And now they're on your back. And so that was one of the ways that they kind of maintained discipline and kept us in line was like you screw up. Everybody paced, everybody's pissed at you. It's not just us yelling at you. 

Now, you gotta face your own peers because of this. Did you experience any of that, uh, with, with some of the mishaps and mistakes that you had along the way? Mostly it was, uh, yes, if the group screwed up, you screwed up. But also if the individual screwed up, they would make fun of their names, their religion, their race, uh, they would and, um, and they would purposely take them out and allow them to go through extra help on a personal basis, whether it be log drills, curls or whatever exercises late at night to, to try to break them down. We're looking out the windows feeling sorry for them. And so in many ways, we're feeling sorry for our comrade that's getting pushed to the point of break through physical and for, you know, and so they would do that, they would humiliate you in front of people. 

Um, if you called the rifle a gun. The, this is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for fighting, this is for fun and you would do that over and over if you had a certain that they would get you in front of the formation to, to demonstrate your ability to articulate your accent over and over and over to make fun of the accent, whatever that might be just, you know, so they, so they would point things out personally with you, even your name. If you had a strange last name, they would abuse that name over and over. And, uh, no, that was just, that was just part of what they did at that time. Yeah. Which personally, uh, I'm inclined to think if you can't handle that. How do you handle when people are legitimately trying to kill you as an opposing, like, enemy military force? Right. Um, there's something to be said, like, uh, and, and, you know, it was kind of interesting because I remember, like, after basic training there was a period of time where, like, one of our drill instructors came out and, and had a couple beers with us and it was like we could put on c or civilian clothes and we could talk to him like, just a real person because the pressure was off. 

We were kind of like, and, and he, he could kind of talk to us like real people and he's like, look, the fact is he'd done overseas tours in hostile zones. And he's like, look, the reality is when the bullets are flying in your direction and they're real, like, you can't, you can't break down. And so we have to find out if you're gonna break down before we ever put you on a plane to send you to one of these locations. And that's why we do what we do. Mhm. Yeah. They, what they do is they strip you down. So that, so to me, the hardest part was the basic training because you're stripped down that you, your, your head is shaved, your, your civilian clothing, your radios, whatever you have, that's all taken away from you and all you've got is your people to your left and your right and your drill sergeants or your sergeants and, uh, that you have to rely on that. 

They'll, they'll, and they'll manifest any weaknesses they have in you to try to exploit any type of weaknesses you got. And so for me, it was just learning the things I, I was able to do it physically but whatever weakness they got, they're gonna exploit that and try to see what they can get out of it and try to break you out of that. It's funny. I was actually, as you were talking, I was thinking about uh, like one of the songs we would, you know, we sing like kind of a chanting song when we're, we're out doing drill and in the Canadian military. 

I'm not sure if it's the same in the US military, but we have a rank in the navy called PO or petty officer. Um, uh, not the civilian equivalent would be like, I think a sergeant, uh, sorry, the, the army equivalent would be a sergeant. And so when he was in the navy, he's a PO or a petty officer. And so he would sing like, uh, I don't got a mama but I got a po. He don't call me sweetie, but he taught me to sew. 

Yeah, I mean, uh yeah, we would sing usually the songs back then were very uh see the woman in pink. Uh Lord, she makes your fingers stank. We would say see the woman in black. Yeah, she makes her living on her back. And so, and then that became politically, you can't say those things anymore. And so you have to adjust to the pop, you know, you see these songs develop over time. So, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um So after kind of being scared straight, uh where, where did your military career take you? Uh Eventually I went on to become an officer in the military. Um I became an officer in the National Guard and then I eventually, since I had a reserve officer training for a scholarship, believe it or not, uh I went on to active duty and into, I went into the 10th Special Forces Group at Fort Devins, Massachusetts and I went there just for about a year, a short stunt and I was very privileged to jump out of airplanes with the special operations. 

I was not tapped. I was not special relations. I was a support officer with the group and we did a lot of jumps and we did a lot of various field activities. 

We went up into Canada for uh cold weather operations. I went to Canada to really, it was an operation of cold weather operations. But behind scenes, we were taking pictures of things that I can't talk about. It was sort of a mission within a mission. And I, we went to Fort Harrison, Montana and, and I was there for a year and I decided that special, I love special operations, the green Berets, the Saint Peter's. But I felt that I needed to get something more stable. 

I wanted to make a career in the military and I didn't want to have to push it that hard at that level. Um And then I went, and I, our branch transferred, believe it or not. I went into public health, the Medical service Corps of the army Medical Department. I went into special public health prevention of diseases. And I went on to Korea, South Korea. That's uh and then I went through 20 years on active duty after that, in the public health uh part of the military, right? 

So, yeah, so you really turned your life around and turned into something significantly to the positive when we hear a term like uh public health and disease prevention. Um What does that actually entail in, in kind of layman's terms? Or in practice, it's kind of like your local health department that tests water, food sanitation measures of everything that you're eating the environment, uh and anything that you're consuming and the environment you live under and under. So we were sort of a, an inspecting body of the military for on the military posts for the help of them, whether it be the environment, whether it be water, food, sanitation, mosquitoes or anything that might cause disease transmission. Yeah, which actually it's, it's interesting to think about this because um we often think about the most hazardous part of being in the military is enemy combatants and what's coming your way forgetting that particularly when you go to a foreign country, a different environment that you're going to encounter potential uh pathogens and sicknesses that can just as easily deli debilitate you. Um and, and render you absolutely ineffective. And so the idea of being kind of prepared for that sort of stuff, it's not maybe quite as glamorous, doesn't necessarily make the uh make the movies with a list actors in them, but it is absolutely crucial in terms of keeping a fighting force able to uh be present and active. 

Yeah, I mean, we used to call it the break, the break the transmission of disease and and like, like we were considered a redheaded stepchild within the army medical department and they would joke on us like, oh, you just go tell people to wash their hands and clean up. But we were sort of an inspecting body. We were the redheaded stepchild, of course, after COVID hit and then where's it was, where's public health at? But, uh, you know, but after COVID hit and everybody, but no, uh, yeah, we were sort of, uh, looked at as less, uh, in the medical department and a lot of people didn't even understand these, these, these occupations existed at that time. Yeah. I think the, the, the number one killer of all people on earth is called a mosquito. A mosquito. Yeah. Kills more people on this earth than any other animal through disease transmission. Right. Yeah. Uh, and I think malaria is probably a big part of it but it's not the only one, I mean, Dengue fever, uh, zika virus is that mosquitoes as well? Yellow fever. Uh, yeah, aids, malaria. It goes on and on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right because we, uh, when we went, uh, we went live in Mexico and we had plans to travel down to South America and we had to get yellow fever vaccination, um, before we could, we could do any of that, um, for, for that reason. And so, um, so eventually he decided, well, the military tried to, like, kick me out. 

I, I tried to put myself in a position to be kicked out through my own. Uh some of some of the things that I did, but lo and behold, I ended up having a pretty distinguished career, which I think is, is quite remarkable to consider, uh you know, a, a kid with learning disability ends up having a rather distinguished and extended career in the military. He did over 30 years, which is a very significant um chunk of your, your life in service. And uh so, but then what, what was a sign for you that, hey, you know what, maybe this is, it's, it's come in time for me to, to wind this down and move on to the next chapter of my life. Well, uh there was a big dark chapter even as a senior person where I was investigated for doing things that I didn't do. Um I was kind of thrown under the bus, um uh as a senior person, I was a lieutenant colonel at the time and I'd already had the senior career even at that point, I'd done more than most of these people, but in groups of people or an organ. So we move every 2 to 3 years and even though I'm in the army, we have to go into different cliques and organizations and things of that nature if you don't adapt that well to the, the group, um I didn't know it at the time but there are procedures where they can throw you under the bus or they can ghost light you or they can try to do things to make your life miserable. 

That what occurred in my third tour of Korea, believe it or not. And I'd already, I'd already been in the army for over 20 years. Um, and I had done it, you know, and, uh, I went into a situation where I just, I just did not agree with the leadership of where my strengths were and what they wanted me to do where I thought I needed to go. I mean, I'm in a position to give my opinion as a lieutenant. Currently, I had years I'd been there. This is my third tour. 

I, I felt that I had an opinion and, uh, that didn't go well. Uh, it wasn't an argument. It was more like just this is where I think I need to go compared to my and that they didn't like that. Well, um, I, I found myself facing two years of crazy events that occurred that were not my fault. And I, I'll see when my book I'm gonna, like I told, I told you, I tell you what's my problem and what's my fault. And I'll tell you what's not. 

So, with this one, Fish, uh, Ruber was in the very beginning. They wanted to stir up RS that I was a pedophile, I mean, right. So that was the rumor that went in with the community now. Yes, I did go. My daughter went to the elementary school. 

I was very playful father. Yes. Yes. Um I, I go and I eat lunch with them, but I'm not a pedophile. So when that didn't work less than a year later I became a spy. So I became officially, I went under, this was more official. 

The other one was a, whatever, this one was official that I was selling secrets to foreign nationals overseas. And so I went under a federal investigation uh within the criminal investigation division of the US army and the military intelligence agency of the army that there was a possibility that I am selling secrets. So I went from a pedophile to a spy within two years, easily within two, probably a year, really a year. So what it was, it's all just a set up to try to stir up because see, once you're a senior person in the military or the government, all they can do really if they don't like you is to, to stir shit up and to try to, it's like it's a ghost lighting, it's throwing you under the bus. So, so that's so I went through people following me around, there was computer crashes, people trying to set me up minor train. I, I did have a legal defense. 

Nothing ever happened, just like nothing happened with the pedophile charges. Nothing happened with criminal uh the, the M I the military intelligence and the criminal investigation division, this was just all trying to set me either to transfer me out, uh, there or to kick me out. That's what, because you can't, you have to do something hideous to get kicked out or to transfer it out. You have to and nothing. No, there was nothing there. And, um, once I left that environment, there was no other charges at all and it was only in that one environment that, that occurred and that was the place where I disagreed with my uh I had some opinions and that's where there was a professional disagreement. And then therefore I just threw my all hell broke looks. 

I mean, I was like, it was just like crazy stuff that went on during the 2.5 years of time. Very, very stressful time. Um No kidding. And so you, you mentioned, you mentioned having a daughter. Um So there's a family in the, in the picture as well. Uh How, how do, how does your family sort of deal with or, or navigate you, you kind of dealing with this stuff? What was it like for them? So my, yeah, and so my wife was looked at as someone who's supporting a pedophile and a criminal, a spy. And so, and so, so she was looked at very differently but she said, just keep do if you're, you're not doing anything, we know that. So just keep doing what you're doing and I just kept doing what I was doing and nothing ever came of it. 

Matter of fact, I did, I'm a little bit of a rascal car character. I have a mischievousness in me. And so I was brought, I went into a Christmas party. Uh, and I told a person that I thought was behind the scenes that I was staying in Korea. I'm not going anywhere. In other words, I'm gonna stay in the, in the, in the, in the theater. And uh just like what happened? It was a lie. I was lying. And what happened was he turned on his heel as he walked away. 

Let's just say a whole lot of shit happened and there was nothing there to it. They were trying to set me up again. So what I'm saying is I just knew there was people behind the scenes doing things. They wanted me out of South Korea, they wanted me out of the group. And um I just eventually went through my tour, but I knew who was behind the scenes. I knew who I got the fake names. 

Iii I put the names differently and things of that nature. But you can be set up in a group of people and you can be thrown out. It doesn't matter. Uh You can be ghost lighted, you can be thrown under the bus and you may have not have done anything and you have to go through uh and, and it can be very painful. And those are, there are certain things that so when I see on the television about this person is undergoing investigation, I don't really know if it's real or not. It may be real, it may not be real. But once they say that then the one, I mean, they say their name has a mark, your name and my name had a mark. 

I was, I was like the only time I got. So they said, well, let's send this as Afghanistan. So I did that but, and I came back redeemed, but I did well in Afghanistan. But no, they, they, they, what I'm saying is they can throw things out there that are false accusations that really screw with the families. So I took it harder than my wife and my daughter. She was young. So we sort of kept it away from her. She understands now. But, um, at the time we just tried to keep that away from her and try to keep her in the ballgame of her school and education. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you would have had, I guess quite a bit of time separated from your family as well while doing these tours. Is that right? So, it's the thing, the great thing about it when I was in South Korea, I had my family there. Ok. So, so when all those accusations were there, they were, what helped keep me in the game So if they weren't there, I don't know, it had been difficult. 

No, they were there and they were supporting me more and I, that was my bedrock there. And uh I did see mental health counselors. I did see the chaplain and there were some trusted advisors and, but I had to leave the fence as well. So nothing but I'm saying is like nothing happened. What the hard part also was like once I left, there's nobody said anything, no one said they're sorry. 

No one says this was a false investigation or a bogus, which I knew it was. And uh so like, what, what about all this activity that occurred over there that I went through all this hell with, I had to get a legal defense attorney. I had to do this, I had to do that. And so I was like, well, we, we don't know anything about it. But see, even though it's secret, considered secret, it does hit level and your name becomes mud and my name was mud. And uh so, um, but that's just the way you, yeah, I still stayed in the game for another 2.5, 3 years. 

That was a big hit. And then of course, my father died and then I went to Afghanistan and I would eventually got out. That was, that was, that was the biggest hit that I ever had in my career. Was it from my own people? Not the Taliban, not the, it was from my own people. That was the big. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I can tell there's, there's many more stories and many more details to this story, which is why, why you wrote the book. Um, your, your book, is it, uh Against All Odds? What's the title of your book? 

It's a, a Soldier Against all odds and Soldier Against All odds. Um, uh, this had been nagging at me for a long period of time and, uh, I, this, this book was probably the hardest thing I've ever done. Post, well, post retirement or even, well, even before retirement, this was a very difficult book to do for me personally because it was the, the vulnerability that I had to spill out and the things that I've talked about where I could not talk about them for years and now I am able to do that. That didn't take one year. It took many years to do that. And so I had to go through that process of vulnerability and to get it out there, but I'm very proud that it's out there. 

And, uh, yeah, I'll, yeah, how that, that, that's fantastic. I was gonna ask that question, you know, for those who, who have heard your story today. Um And you think, hey, you know, I, I'd love to know more. You know, we can only cover so much in this, in the window of having an interview. 

We've covered a lot but I, I can tell there's, there's still a lot more uh behind the scenes so they, they can go to Amazon and look for, they can either your name Jason Pike or a soldier against all odds. Jason Pike dot org. Jason Pike dot org. A soldier against all odds. 

There's, uh I've almost died in shit. I've got electrocuted naked. There are just multiple, multiple week, week events. Um So I, I've jumped out of airplanes almost got killed. There's so many things in here that you can look at your life and see inspiration and hope, no matter what phase of life you're in and thinking, look at this dumb ass what he did. 

So, but no, that's, that's kind of my goal is to just, but it's true. It's, it's, I put it in an entertaining but it's true that there's some sad, happy, it's lie if it, it's just like ups and downs of life. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. There, there's some, some very intriguing little nuggets you drop there. 

Great, a great reason to, to check out the book. Uh The thing I always like to ask my guests as we close out is um you know, someone who's listened to this conversation today, if they could take one thing away from this conversation, what is it you would like them to, to take away in your job, show up, show up at the right place at the right time with the right attitude. Even if you don't know a damn thing, just show up, show up at the right place, right time, right attitude. You'll be doing better than most. Trust me. I've done that. And so that's, that's my, that's my little nugget for you guys. Awesome. I love it. Jason. Thank you so much for being on today. It's been a pleasure sharing your story. I'm honored to be on the show, John. Take care. 

Thank you so much for tuning in to between the before and after. If you've enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review because that helps this podcast to reach and inspire more people. I love exploring the stories that take place between the before and after the powerful experiences that shape who we become and I love human potential. I love the possibilities that lie within us. So whatever you may be up against, I hope these stories inspire you because if you're still here, your story is not done yet. So keep moving forward.